Presentation to the Canadian Association of the Club of Rome on the campaign to fight the Thacker Pass lithium mine, and more broadly, the greenwashing of the environmental movement.
Thank you, Max. I've listened to your presentation once, and will again when my mind is fresher. And I love the photos in the beginning that encourage us to delve into finding why lithium is not the catch-all & be-all the general population seems to think it is, or more accurately, has been led to believe it is. I'm very grateful for the incredible work and time you devote to educating those of us not as well-studied as you are, It's that education that may change the bright green lies we've been fed to hard hard truth that will help us do the right things.
I think you are being optimistic regarding the timeline. The methane bombs are already going off, the sudden heating of the oceans over the last year should be flashing bright red lights. I don't think we have decades.
A big problem we face is digitalitis: an inflammation of people's social networks, people being disembodied, turned into digital entities who are totally detached from the real physical world, who think everything exists on the Internet, with no real physical aspects.
As you and your co-writers point out, EVs and the like cannot replace the lifeblood of industrial civilization, i.e. the diesel required to run the trucks, trains, mining machines, and the like without which everything stops. This factor may bring the entire show to a rapid sudden end.
A woman named Jean brought up the "pandemic" and the reaction to it. This is a major problem with efforts to counter climate chaos. The information is quite overwhelming: The entire "Pandemic"/"COVID-19"/"SARS-Cov-2” narrative is as phony as a 2.5 dollar bill. The likes of Canadian Prof Denis Rancourt demonstrated via stats that there was no spread of some pathogen, given the "pandemic" skipped all continents, many nations, most US states (only 8 states had the vast majority of excess deaths in Spring 2020). And even within such states, only some areas were affected, e.g. New York City, but not the upstate and Long Island suburbs.
Making links between the "pandemic" and climate chaos is a BAD idea. Ir will convince people that like the "pandemic," climate chaos is a phony crisis being cooked up, to be used as a justification for herding the world's people into a global digital Blockchain based prison. Never mind that unlike virology, climate science is a sound science going back centuries. I fight against this mentality daily in my Internet interactions. Having climate activists parrot the analogy makes it even harder.
Max, associating in any way with the Club of Rome is a sure way to invite shunning from most of what passes for social resistance nowadays. The Club of Rome itself is FAR from "autonomous, independent, and nonpartisan," it is thoroughly tied into the global ruling elite and into the 4IR/Great Reset/UN SDGs/Agenda 2030 effort. Any energy plan it favors is entirely about maintaining the global capitalist system in the face of dwindling energy supplies, dwindling resources, an increasingly chaotic global economic system and growing mass unrest.
I don't know much about CACOR, but I do know a few people who participate in the group, and they're people who I respect.
Feel free to send me a private message if you'd like to share more information with me, but I can't promise I will read it, and can't promise I will agree, largely because I firmly don't believe in avoiding interaction with people I have political disagreements with. That's what a friend calls "the cooties theory of politics," and I simply don't subscribe to it. In fact, I think people I disagree with are the most important people to have dialogue with.
I've also spoken on NPR (which is absolutely terrible in so many ways), CNN (which is worse), the NY Times (which is a reprehensible organization not least for what they did around the Iraq/Afghan Wars), and in countless venues where I disagree with the hosts on many issues.
There's a great essay floating around somewhere, which if I recall correctly, tells the story of an anti-racist minister in the 1950's who regularly met with the KKK. At the time, he was viciously attacked by erstwhile allies who believed the fist or the bullet should be the only interaction with such people. But in retrospect, the essay relates that his work led many people to renounce the KKK and racism, and was pretty damn effective.
Now that's an extreme example, and the strategy is certainly far from appropriate in many situations.
But regardless, I'm happy to share this talk, since I'm proud of what I said.
Jeffrey, I don't know anything about the Club of Rome other than the efforts that produced The Limits to Growth, and I'm listening replying to Max, not any thing else. And he's certainly to be trusted in his research and independence. Any comments which put down another group aren't fair to Max, IMO. I read, listen and learn from his material and not political criticism
Betsy, i am not criticizing Max. He made a good point about talking to people we don't necessarily agree with. I'm just telling him how a large swath of the "resistance" will react to any mention of the Club of Rome. I subscribe to this blog and use material from it. Simply saying it may be a good idea to learn about the group.
I'm not saying you're criticizing Max, merely that the material presented can make big change without criticizing another group. And your last sentence is somewhat presumptuous..
Betsy, your first sentence states you don't know anything about the Club of Rome. I was thus saying it's a good idea to learn about it. In case you were confused, i was NOT referring to Max or Deep Green Resistance or anything Max is affiliated with. I'm currently reading Bright Green Lies, which Max is a co-author of, i wouldn't subscribe to this blog if i thought it was sketchy in any way. :-)
I'm not confused, Jeffrey. I think this should be a discussion and action that will indeed Protect Thacker Pass. Time spent away from that topic is irrelevant. My computer is gone, I'm ill and I have the people I support at my shelters to give my No 1 priority. Good evening
I was not talking about Thacker Pass, seeing Max on What's Left is what got me here, and got me to get Bright Green Lies. The people one reaches out to in order to gain support for this project should always be looked at carefully. As a long time eco-activist (over 50 years), if you don't carefully examine who you can be associated with, someone else will do so., for bad aims.
"...land that was previously uncommodified is now worth billions on the market."
Economics calls this ‘progress’….
English colonists called natural land ‘waste’… And they proceeded to lay waste to it….
That process continues in a ‘green’ disguise today….
Absolutely, Peter — as you know better than most.
Thank you, Max. I've listened to your presentation once, and will again when my mind is fresher. And I love the photos in the beginning that encourage us to delve into finding why lithium is not the catch-all & be-all the general population seems to think it is, or more accurately, has been led to believe it is. I'm very grateful for the incredible work and time you devote to educating those of us not as well-studied as you are, It's that education that may change the bright green lies we've been fed to hard hard truth that will help us do the right things.
I too am grateful for Max for his love and devotion to save this beautiful planet.... and his photos of Thacker Pass are amazing !!!
That was a damn good presentation.
Some comments.
I think you are being optimistic regarding the timeline. The methane bombs are already going off, the sudden heating of the oceans over the last year should be flashing bright red lights. I don't think we have decades.
A big problem we face is digitalitis: an inflammation of people's social networks, people being disembodied, turned into digital entities who are totally detached from the real physical world, who think everything exists on the Internet, with no real physical aspects.
As you and your co-writers point out, EVs and the like cannot replace the lifeblood of industrial civilization, i.e. the diesel required to run the trucks, trains, mining machines, and the like without which everything stops. This factor may bring the entire show to a rapid sudden end.
https://thehonestsorcerer.medium.com/diesel-downhill-f1687616fa91
Diesel Downhill, B, 9/25/23.
A woman named Jean brought up the "pandemic" and the reaction to it. This is a major problem with efforts to counter climate chaos. The information is quite overwhelming: The entire "Pandemic"/"COVID-19"/"SARS-Cov-2” narrative is as phony as a 2.5 dollar bill. The likes of Canadian Prof Denis Rancourt demonstrated via stats that there was no spread of some pathogen, given the "pandemic" skipped all continents, many nations, most US states (only 8 states had the vast majority of excess deaths in Spring 2020). And even within such states, only some areas were affected, e.g. New York City, but not the upstate and Long Island suburbs.
"COVID-19" is entirely defined/distinguished by the results of tests such as the PCR. These mean nothing if they are not validated using an actual physically isolated and purified test subject. No one has done that with SARS-CoV-2. This is admitted by 218 responses to FOI requests from public health agencies around the world, whose responses can be read here. https://www.fluoridefreepeel.ca/68-health-science-institutions-globally-all-failed-to-cite-even-1-record-of-sars-cov-2-purification-by-anyone-anywhere-ever/
Making links between the "pandemic" and climate chaos is a BAD idea. Ir will convince people that like the "pandemic," climate chaos is a phony crisis being cooked up, to be used as a justification for herding the world's people into a global digital Blockchain based prison. Never mind that unlike virology, climate science is a sound science going back centuries. I fight against this mentality daily in my Internet interactions. Having climate activists parrot the analogy makes it even harder.
Max, associating in any way with the Club of Rome is a sure way to invite shunning from most of what passes for social resistance nowadays. The Club of Rome itself is FAR from "autonomous, independent, and nonpartisan," it is thoroughly tied into the global ruling elite and into the 4IR/Great Reset/UN SDGs/Agenda 2030 effort. Any energy plan it favors is entirely about maintaining the global capitalist system in the face of dwindling energy supplies, dwindling resources, an increasingly chaotic global economic system and growing mass unrest.
Hello Jeffrey.
I don't know much about CACOR, but I do know a few people who participate in the group, and they're people who I respect.
Feel free to send me a private message if you'd like to share more information with me, but I can't promise I will read it, and can't promise I will agree, largely because I firmly don't believe in avoiding interaction with people I have political disagreements with. That's what a friend calls "the cooties theory of politics," and I simply don't subscribe to it. In fact, I think people I disagree with are the most important people to have dialogue with.
I've also spoken on NPR (which is absolutely terrible in so many ways), CNN (which is worse), the NY Times (which is a reprehensible organization not least for what they did around the Iraq/Afghan Wars), and in countless venues where I disagree with the hosts on many issues.
There's a great essay floating around somewhere, which if I recall correctly, tells the story of an anti-racist minister in the 1950's who regularly met with the KKK. At the time, he was viciously attacked by erstwhile allies who believed the fist or the bullet should be the only interaction with such people. But in retrospect, the essay relates that his work led many people to renounce the KKK and racism, and was pretty damn effective.
Now that's an extreme example, and the strategy is certainly far from appropriate in many situations.
But regardless, I'm happy to share this talk, since I'm proud of what I said.
Jeffrey, I don't know anything about the Club of Rome other than the efforts that produced The Limits to Growth, and I'm listening replying to Max, not any thing else. And he's certainly to be trusted in his research and independence. Any comments which put down another group aren't fair to Max, IMO. I read, listen and learn from his material and not political criticism
Betsy, i am not criticizing Max. He made a good point about talking to people we don't necessarily agree with. I'm just telling him how a large swath of the "resistance" will react to any mention of the Club of Rome. I subscribe to this blog and use material from it. Simply saying it may be a good idea to learn about the group.
I'm not saying you're criticizing Max, merely that the material presented can make big change without criticizing another group. And your last sentence is somewhat presumptuous..
Betsy, your first sentence states you don't know anything about the Club of Rome. I was thus saying it's a good idea to learn about it. In case you were confused, i was NOT referring to Max or Deep Green Resistance or anything Max is affiliated with. I'm currently reading Bright Green Lies, which Max is a co-author of, i wouldn't subscribe to this blog if i thought it was sketchy in any way. :-)
I'm not confused, Jeffrey. I think this should be a discussion and action that will indeed Protect Thacker Pass. Time spent away from that topic is irrelevant. My computer is gone, I'm ill and I have the people I support at my shelters to give my No 1 priority. Good evening
I was not talking about Thacker Pass, seeing Max on What's Left is what got me here, and got me to get Bright Green Lies. The people one reaches out to in order to gain support for this project should always be looked at carefully. As a long time eco-activist (over 50 years), if you don't carefully examine who you can be associated with, someone else will do so., for bad aims.