Thanks again, Max. I just shared Elisabeth Robson's recent post from DGR news service that has links to all three excellent presentations. I really liked her clear summary of the whole predicament, especially the "Carbon Tunnel Vision" illustration.
Maybe we can bring back a real "environmental movement" that puts concern for all natural life on Earth first. How far would we have gotten by now if we had not been detoured by "green energy" and other delusionary false solutions?
One comment: the environmental movement when it first emerged was NOT revolutionary, anti-capitalist. I got on board in early 1971, so i became familiar with much of what had gone on the previous several years, and for sure have been familiar with what has transpired since. Murray Bookchin in the mid '60s had already differentiated between ecologism and environmentalism, the latter anthropocentric and all about keeping society going while appearing to make efforts to protect "the environment," and the former about the web of life of which humans are just a part and the impossibility of protecting this life from the society which depends upon perpetual growth, lest it collapses. This is why even by the time i got on board there was such domination by reformists and increasing criticisms of the movement.
Thanks Jeffrey, that's good feedback about that generalization — I should say the environmental movement contained the seed of revolutionary idea, that was recognized from the beginning by certain groups and individuals within the broad umbrella. That strain of anthropocentrism is stronger than ever now. Happy solstice.
I was recently on the cover of Harper's magazine...I AM a revolutionary...I would like to be interviewed or my contribution recognized...i did six long years in a violent federal prison for industrial sabotage....how can I help!!
Hey my earth loving comrade.... write me anytime...lots to talk about in defense of mother earth........a documentary about my life as saboteur will be filmed soon
Hello Stephen, I read Christopher Ketcham's article. I felt sorry that you suffered so much for this vital cause and I'm grateful for your concern and determined effort. It is enormously frustrating to watch the grotesque system keep rolling on. But there are cracks appearing and you can claim to have applied some pressure. It seems you endured a lonely existence, but I'm glad you found renewal and solace in the wilderness. Another thing which came to mind while reading the article was that no one who is fighting for liberation - of people and the environment - should allow themselves to be labelled 'terrorist,' even an eco- one. Eco-warrior yes; not eco-terrorist. Terrorist is a term used by power to delegitimise and devalue the cause, to divert people's attention away from the activist's legitimate concerns and prevent popular response to the larger, common threat which activists are ethically resisting. Which is not to say that some people would not need to feel something like existential terror to awaken to the crises and enact the level of change required. But the sense of terror arising in them from personal revelation and understandings gained through education might have a better chance of sticking. The hour is late, but change can come quickly. Citizens' response to the situation in the ME might be a hopeful indicator of the failing narrative and awakening from the anaesthesia it induced. Respect.
I joined the international environmental movement as a sailor on Greenpeace boats in 1990. Whilst aspiring to the logic of degrowth I find some of the vocabulary you use vis a vis the environmental movement unture (“we” were not co-opted by anyone my friend. “We” were trying to figure out how to wake up the world, what the solutions were, how to affect change), unfair and disrespectful (sweeping statements like “the environmental movement” which is thousands of humans all over the world fighting for decades now in all sorts of different ways), unjustly arrogant sounding, and perfect fodder for right wing conspiracy theorists and the fossil fuel lobby. Most of all I feel sad to experience what the extreme right wing is not doing; us pointing fingers at each other and dividing ourselves. Good luck with your studies on Degrowth at the University of Barcelona! An excellent department with some incredible professors
Hi Athena, thanks for reading and sharing your thoughts — and for what sounds like decades of work to protect the planet!
In regards to co-opting, I would argue different; I think there has been active and significant co-optation (largely via the influence of philathropy and funding). But, I would also agree with you that environmental activists have (of course) actively generated their own strategies. I'm actually working on some writing about this, because I see a Faustian bargain that has been made by some elements of the movement, in regards to technology.
You're also right that I made plenty of generalizations in that talk; it's hard to cover big topics like this without doing so, for the sake of making forward momentum in a short time to present an argument. But if you're interested in much more nuanced arguments, check out my book at the library!
I'd love to hear some stories from the boats sometime; maybe we'll get a chance to meet in person and discuss all this sometime.
Thanks again, Max. I just shared Elisabeth Robson's recent post from DGR news service that has links to all three excellent presentations. I really liked her clear summary of the whole predicament, especially the "Carbon Tunnel Vision" illustration.
https://dgrnewsservice.org/civilization/ecocide/habitat-loss/why-are-we-not-talking-about-ecological-overshoot/?utm_source=DGR%20News%20Service&utm_campaign=4598c36ec9-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_51489b99cd-4598c36ec9-469459117&fbclid=IwAR0zR0uSkXZ8EQLiGfEPXLcwsTb4SxFwPhVukEMTcZRiDqJsYiOtm2iTfKE
Maybe we can bring back a real "environmental movement" that puts concern for all natural life on Earth first. How far would we have gotten by now if we had not been detoured by "green energy" and other delusionary false solutions?
That Carbon Tunnel Vision graphic is extraordinary, isn't it? Thank you George.
I watched it yesterday. You did a great job. And kudos to Elisabeth for organizing.
Cheers Justin!
Thanks for this, Max. A lot to chew on.
One comment: the environmental movement when it first emerged was NOT revolutionary, anti-capitalist. I got on board in early 1971, so i became familiar with much of what had gone on the previous several years, and for sure have been familiar with what has transpired since. Murray Bookchin in the mid '60s had already differentiated between ecologism and environmentalism, the latter anthropocentric and all about keeping society going while appearing to make efforts to protect "the environment," and the former about the web of life of which humans are just a part and the impossibility of protecting this life from the society which depends upon perpetual growth, lest it collapses. This is why even by the time i got on board there was such domination by reformists and increasing criticisms of the movement.
Thanks Jeffrey, that's good feedback about that generalization — I should say the environmental movement contained the seed of revolutionary idea, that was recognized from the beginning by certain groups and individuals within the broad umbrella. That strain of anthropocentrism is stronger than ever now. Happy solstice.
Happy Solstice to you, Max!
Same to you!
I was recently on the cover of Harper's magazine...I AM a revolutionary...I would like to be interviewed or my contribution recognized...i did six long years in a violent federal prison for industrial sabotage....how can I help!!
Hey Stephen, I'd be happy to connect with you sometime. I'll reach out once I'm over this sickness I'm dealing with, probably after the new year.
Hey my earth loving comrade.... write me anytime...lots to talk about in defense of mother earth........a documentary about my life as saboteur will be filmed soon
Hello Stephen, I read Christopher Ketcham's article. I felt sorry that you suffered so much for this vital cause and I'm grateful for your concern and determined effort. It is enormously frustrating to watch the grotesque system keep rolling on. But there are cracks appearing and you can claim to have applied some pressure. It seems you endured a lonely existence, but I'm glad you found renewal and solace in the wilderness. Another thing which came to mind while reading the article was that no one who is fighting for liberation - of people and the environment - should allow themselves to be labelled 'terrorist,' even an eco- one. Eco-warrior yes; not eco-terrorist. Terrorist is a term used by power to delegitimise and devalue the cause, to divert people's attention away from the activist's legitimate concerns and prevent popular response to the larger, common threat which activists are ethically resisting. Which is not to say that some people would not need to feel something like existential terror to awaken to the crises and enact the level of change required. But the sense of terror arising in them from personal revelation and understandings gained through education might have a better chance of sticking. The hour is late, but change can come quickly. Citizens' response to the situation in the ME might be a hopeful indicator of the failing narrative and awakening from the anaesthesia it induced. Respect.
I joined the international environmental movement as a sailor on Greenpeace boats in 1990. Whilst aspiring to the logic of degrowth I find some of the vocabulary you use vis a vis the environmental movement unture (“we” were not co-opted by anyone my friend. “We” were trying to figure out how to wake up the world, what the solutions were, how to affect change), unfair and disrespectful (sweeping statements like “the environmental movement” which is thousands of humans all over the world fighting for decades now in all sorts of different ways), unjustly arrogant sounding, and perfect fodder for right wing conspiracy theorists and the fossil fuel lobby. Most of all I feel sad to experience what the extreme right wing is not doing; us pointing fingers at each other and dividing ourselves. Good luck with your studies on Degrowth at the University of Barcelona! An excellent department with some incredible professors
Hi Athena, thanks for reading and sharing your thoughts — and for what sounds like decades of work to protect the planet!
In regards to co-opting, I would argue different; I think there has been active and significant co-optation (largely via the influence of philathropy and funding). But, I would also agree with you that environmental activists have (of course) actively generated their own strategies. I'm actually working on some writing about this, because I see a Faustian bargain that has been made by some elements of the movement, in regards to technology.
You're also right that I made plenty of generalizations in that talk; it's hard to cover big topics like this without doing so, for the sake of making forward momentum in a short time to present an argument. But if you're interested in much more nuanced arguments, check out my book at the library!
I'd love to hear some stories from the boats sometime; maybe we'll get a chance to meet in person and discuss all this sometime.
I tried to email back..I have been sick also