To lead, grow, and sustain any team, elevating the people is key. They need to feel valued and reminded of their importance.
In most of the activism and professional organizational efforts I have either participated in or observed, organizers focus on the issue, action, and opposition, but forget that the machine of their work runs on egos and fragile passions. You can't lead a concept. You can't lead an act. Being a "Thought Leader" is not really leadership. Intellectual inspiration is intense, frenetic, and short lived. Long term inspiration is emotional and subconscious.
You lead people. It's very hard to accomplish more than symbolic flashes of public interest without consistently empowered and inspired people. Serve people in their work, wins, and through failure. Offer opportunities to matter and let your success be a product of theirs.
Get to know small, local producers of food (farmers) and other goods. For me, those community connections have been very grounding and beneficial - it makes me, and others in my grassroots networks, feel less isolated, more united, and more hopeful for the future.
Interesting question. On which concepts did your path with DGR diverge? That will help to know while moving forward and attempting to answer your question about lessons and structures. The animal sanctuary is draining me financially so I cannot help in that respect but it fills my heart so hopefully I can help in other ways. Thank you for your courage and tenacity at Thacker Pass ,Max
I join in hoping you will speak about your divergence from DGR to the purpose of educating others about important issues we may not know enough about that need to be discussed.
What I have experienced that builds solidarity and shared power: understanding the root causes as well as the "symptoms" or problems, creating a shared understanding and group culture, and communicating from the heart with comrades and the "outside" world. Crafting the demands that are large and militant, but not detached from reality. Honesty and humility. A sense of the mystery as well as knowledge of the practical daily grind. A balance of deep commitment to a goal and its path, and an openness to change.
I am pretty sure you know why I left DGR. It was heartening to see the issue of sexual harassment and a method for dealing with it in the guidelines for participation at Thacker Pass. The other thing I might add is that I felt like an outsider, the bottom of the pile. The unspoken hierarchy and the unspoken rules need to be spoken of. There are times a hierarchy is necessary. There are times when it is not. And unspoken rules are the tools of manipulation - not solidarity. I understand the need for security and some form of screening for potential members but an atmosphere of being tested and even hazed in order to be accepted as an equal in the group is not going to encourage membership for people who are willing to think for themselves - the people you need.
Well thought out and very, very clear values can avoid a lot of problems . I've witnessed one "environmental" non-profit take what appeared to be a 180 from their mission statement (the issue was also entirely outside their mission statement) and my questions concerning missing or mis-stated "facts" were answered with "I don't like your tone". Many years later I realize this was a political back scratching and I wasn't playing along.
I also lean towards narrowing the focus of the organization but then I don't. I left a group which took a stance on a new issue and seemed to assume the entire group was in agreement when they had not bothered to ask the group. But then too narrow a focus can result in situations like an "environmental" group aiding the demise of one species in an attempt to "save" another. In that instance my questions went entirely unanswered and I was removed from the group with no further communication. I still don't really know what their values were beyond their own existence as a non profit.
Treat the people who join you as you would like to be treated. Respect. Honesty. At best friendliness, at least civility. Don't "dox" someone just because they disagree with the direction the group is taking (yup - the tactics of a "big green" back in the day of unlisted land lines and answering machines) Ask for clarification instead of jumping directly to antagonism based on assumptions that may not be correct (even on "social" media) FFS answer their questions of your members/supporters and refuse to take those questions personally. Are we revolutionaries or automatons? Are we activists or cultists?
but what the hell do I know - I don't join groups anymore
Hello Heidi (and Max!), this chimed with me. I didn't finish the training stage with DGR in part because even though I agree with >99% of what is set out in the DGR book, and in the books various core DGR people have written, I get uncomfortable every time things start to feel like groupthink to me in person, and this happens in so many organisations - is it even possible to have a movement which doesn't feel like that?
Also I was the only woman in the training group, which was uncomfortable too, especially as some of the people in training were hard to distinguish from the usual boys' club elsewhere, and one of the participants with whom I corresponded personally for a bit as a result of that training, I just could not face being in the same organisation as people like him.
The only kind of group I have been able to do re environment is a circle of friends with similar values, who don't have to sign up to anything, whom I can trust and who support each other in individual ventures. But people are people, and it's complicated. A fair proportion will reliably fall out with each other over the years no matter the goodwill at the start.
Is it even possible for our species to organise collaboratively in a healthy way, in more than small groups?
I'll reach out via a direct email on Monday; please ping me if I forget (I'm pretty swamped right now). I will donate to PTP and am willing to help you during your transition as well. Many hugs, you brave soul.
I am 80. I have been involved, not at great length, with various communal efforts in my world. I went to prison for 2 years 3 months for refusing the military. Worked for the draft resistance. Was one of the originators of the old "New Left" Newsreel. Helped set up some film world "independent" coops etc. What I drew from my experiences, and observations of others, is not likely to please you.
Most humans are ego oriented, and in communal efforts this usually surfaces and after a while screws things up. The people who "do good" like to think well of themselves, and are easily self-deluded. I have had (many have died) friends who are nostalgic, think they are doing good, and either became utterly compromised along the way, or are in denial that they and their causes lost drastically.
I have no such delusions. I think we humans will soon destroy our habitat and ourselves along with all our fellow inhabitants on earth, except those like cockroaches who manage the worst circumstances.
The earth will do fine without us, and new creatures have several billion years to play with evolution before nature/the universe/physics takes its course and obliterates our solar system. It is all OK.
I'd nuance that, and say that narcissists and sociopaths are ego orientated, and those are the ones that will push for power and influence in a group, and play dirty politics like anywhere else in the world. Then you end up with the usual narcissistic circus of narcissists/sociopaths and their enablers/flying monkeys, and people who leave in disappointment.
Not as simple as that of course; also big factors are that all of us are flawed, many people are scarred by trauma, and then there's the infantilisation of our whole consumer society, so that very few people are true adults anymore, nor have enough time or the right skill sets and social support for parenting. So the parent-child dyad permeates social interactions - very few adult-adult interactions in a group, particularly a hierarchical group, where there is by definition power imbalance.
Thanks for your thoughts, Jon. I hope you have a good circle of people to trust.
Interesting analysis. Let's not give up on people, though. Easy to despair, including of one's self. The discipline, I think, is to recognize and feel all these disappointments, and carry on as best we can, with whom we can.
To lead, grow, and sustain any team, elevating the people is key. They need to feel valued and reminded of their importance.
In most of the activism and professional organizational efforts I have either participated in or observed, organizers focus on the issue, action, and opposition, but forget that the machine of their work runs on egos and fragile passions. You can't lead a concept. You can't lead an act. Being a "Thought Leader" is not really leadership. Intellectual inspiration is intense, frenetic, and short lived. Long term inspiration is emotional and subconscious.
You lead people. It's very hard to accomplish more than symbolic flashes of public interest without consistently empowered and inspired people. Serve people in their work, wins, and through failure. Offer opportunities to matter and let your success be a product of theirs.
Love you, Max. Miss you tons.
Incredibly well said. Thank you! Love you too!
"To lead, grow, and sustain any team, elevating the people is key. They need to feel valued and reminded of their importance."
"Long term inspiration is emotional and subconscious."
YES!
Get to know small, local producers of food (farmers) and other goods. For me, those community connections have been very grounding and beneficial - it makes me, and others in my grassroots networks, feel less isolated, more united, and more hopeful for the future.
Peas and love!
Rachel B.
Thanks for sharing that Rachel! Same to you!
Interesting question. On which concepts did your path with DGR diverge? That will help to know while moving forward and attempting to answer your question about lessons and structures. The animal sanctuary is draining me financially so I cannot help in that respect but it fills my heart so hopefully I can help in other ways. Thank you for your courage and tenacity at Thacker Pass ,Max
I join in hoping you will speak about your divergence from DGR to the purpose of educating others about important issues we may not know enough about that need to be discussed.
Thank you both. I'm not going to speak in public about the details for the sake of moving forward positively. Appreciate your understanding!
Sometimes we are part of a bigger organization; sometimes we fly free. Welcome to the open range. :)
Thanks, Rebecca!
What I have experienced that builds solidarity and shared power: understanding the root causes as well as the "symptoms" or problems, creating a shared understanding and group culture, and communicating from the heart with comrades and the "outside" world. Crafting the demands that are large and militant, but not detached from reality. Honesty and humility. A sense of the mystery as well as knowledge of the practical daily grind. A balance of deep commitment to a goal and its path, and an openness to change.
Beautifully said, Janet. Thank you!
"shared understanding"
yes
I am pretty sure you know why I left DGR. It was heartening to see the issue of sexual harassment and a method for dealing with it in the guidelines for participation at Thacker Pass. The other thing I might add is that I felt like an outsider, the bottom of the pile. The unspoken hierarchy and the unspoken rules need to be spoken of. There are times a hierarchy is necessary. There are times when it is not. And unspoken rules are the tools of manipulation - not solidarity. I understand the need for security and some form of screening for potential members but an atmosphere of being tested and even hazed in order to be accepted as an equal in the group is not going to encourage membership for people who are willing to think for themselves - the people you need.
Well thought out and very, very clear values can avoid a lot of problems . I've witnessed one "environmental" non-profit take what appeared to be a 180 from their mission statement (the issue was also entirely outside their mission statement) and my questions concerning missing or mis-stated "facts" were answered with "I don't like your tone". Many years later I realize this was a political back scratching and I wasn't playing along.
I also lean towards narrowing the focus of the organization but then I don't. I left a group which took a stance on a new issue and seemed to assume the entire group was in agreement when they had not bothered to ask the group. But then too narrow a focus can result in situations like an "environmental" group aiding the demise of one species in an attempt to "save" another. In that instance my questions went entirely unanswered and I was removed from the group with no further communication. I still don't really know what their values were beyond their own existence as a non profit.
Treat the people who join you as you would like to be treated. Respect. Honesty. At best friendliness, at least civility. Don't "dox" someone just because they disagree with the direction the group is taking (yup - the tactics of a "big green" back in the day of unlisted land lines and answering machines) Ask for clarification instead of jumping directly to antagonism based on assumptions that may not be correct (even on "social" media) FFS answer their questions of your members/supporters and refuse to take those questions personally. Are we revolutionaries or automatons? Are we activists or cultists?
but what the hell do I know - I don't join groups anymore
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Heidi. It means a lot to me.
Hello Heidi (and Max!), this chimed with me. I didn't finish the training stage with DGR in part because even though I agree with >99% of what is set out in the DGR book, and in the books various core DGR people have written, I get uncomfortable every time things start to feel like groupthink to me in person, and this happens in so many organisations - is it even possible to have a movement which doesn't feel like that?
Also I was the only woman in the training group, which was uncomfortable too, especially as some of the people in training were hard to distinguish from the usual boys' club elsewhere, and one of the participants with whom I corresponded personally for a bit as a result of that training, I just could not face being in the same organisation as people like him.
The only kind of group I have been able to do re environment is a circle of friends with similar values, who don't have to sign up to anything, whom I can trust and who support each other in individual ventures. But people are people, and it's complicated. A fair proportion will reliably fall out with each other over the years no matter the goodwill at the start.
Is it even possible for our species to organise collaboratively in a healthy way, in more than small groups?
I'll reach out via a direct email on Monday; please ping me if I forget (I'm pretty swamped right now). I will donate to PTP and am willing to help you during your transition as well. Many hugs, you brave soul.
Thanks so much Janet! That means a lot to me. I got your email and will respond as soon as I can. Pretty swampy on my end, too. All my best!
The Climate Crisis Club, Resist Radio, and Save the Planet Group stand firmly united with you. Feel free to drop in any Saturday and chat.
I find my views quite similar-Alex
Thanks so much, Alex! I'll definitely try and join again soon!
Wishing you the best with your endeavors, Max.
How did I not know you hosted a podcast?! Now following on my podcast app.
Haha, I'm not always a good self promoter. Thanks for the follow Kollibri!
Best of luck to you, Max. I am excited for you and your new journey. I sense a brilliant opening of possibilities for you and the world.
Thank you, Jennifer! I do, too.
Hi Max... Best wishes and power to you! Stay in touch ...
Thank you!
I am 80. I have been involved, not at great length, with various communal efforts in my world. I went to prison for 2 years 3 months for refusing the military. Worked for the draft resistance. Was one of the originators of the old "New Left" Newsreel. Helped set up some film world "independent" coops etc. What I drew from my experiences, and observations of others, is not likely to please you.
Most humans are ego oriented, and in communal efforts this usually surfaces and after a while screws things up. The people who "do good" like to think well of themselves, and are easily self-deluded. I have had (many have died) friends who are nostalgic, think they are doing good, and either became utterly compromised along the way, or are in denial that they and their causes lost drastically.
I have no such delusions. I think we humans will soon destroy our habitat and ourselves along with all our fellow inhabitants on earth, except those like cockroaches who manage the worst circumstances.
The earth will do fine without us, and new creatures have several billion years to play with evolution before nature/the universe/physics takes its course and obliterates our solar system. It is all OK.
Thanks for the comment, Jon. Wishing you the best.
"Most humans are ego oriented, and in communal efforts this usually surfaces and after a while screws things up"
so unfortunately true
I'd nuance that, and say that narcissists and sociopaths are ego orientated, and those are the ones that will push for power and influence in a group, and play dirty politics like anywhere else in the world. Then you end up with the usual narcissistic circus of narcissists/sociopaths and their enablers/flying monkeys, and people who leave in disappointment.
Not as simple as that of course; also big factors are that all of us are flawed, many people are scarred by trauma, and then there's the infantilisation of our whole consumer society, so that very few people are true adults anymore, nor have enough time or the right skill sets and social support for parenting. So the parent-child dyad permeates social interactions - very few adult-adult interactions in a group, particularly a hierarchical group, where there is by definition power imbalance.
Thanks for your thoughts, Jon. I hope you have a good circle of people to trust.
Interesting analysis. Let's not give up on people, though. Easy to despair, including of one's self. The discipline, I think, is to recognize and feel all these disappointments, and carry on as best we can, with whom we can.
Well said, Janet. I agree.
I am pleased that you left DGR behind, in my mind they harbored some bigoted ideas.
Good luck moving ahead!
Thank you. I've been playing a lot of chess lately and thinking of your dear departed. All my best, Kathy.
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